How Long will the Current Recession Last? Not as Long as You Think.
Related Posts: ~ Where to Invest in 2009 - Stocks, Gold or Real EstateMany are calling this the worst recession since the great depression. Or, most succinctly the Great Depression 2. No doubt the news is bad and all the major economic indicators signal that growth is slowing at a quickening pace. But the question on most people's minds is how long will this recession continue. It is getting stale to read about all the bad news making headlines everyday and it would be nice to read a positive headline like, "US economy adds 100,000 jobs". Unlikely in the near term, but there may be some light at the end of tunnel as we enter 2009 under a new political administration.
Depending on your perspective, things could get better soon or we may not have even reached the half way point of the current downturn. As the graphic from the WSJ and NBER shows, past recessions have generally lasted anywhere from 6 months to 16 months, with the Great depression the biggest outlier at 43 months. The current recession which officially started in December 2007, has now run for 12 months. With few signs of improvement in the near term it will probably go down as one of the longer recessions in recent times, but I don't think it will be as bad as some people are predicting. Furthermore, the recovery will be even more stunning and swift than the downturn.
My view on the current recession is that it will not be as bad as the Great depression and that we are more than half way through it. Just a few months ago people were talking about high oil prices, inflation and over valued stock markets. Suddenly, relatively speaking, all these issues have been turned on their head with oil prices crashing, deflation rather than inflation a concern now and stock markets that have fallen off a cliff. The interconnectedness of the global economy magnified the severity and speed of the economic downturn, but the same forces will also work in reverse to bring back economic growth just as fast. The keys are confidence and time for markets and people to absorb the changes being put in place by governments all over the world. Once business and consumers are confident that things are getting better (or less worse), then they will start lending, borrowing and spending more freely again which will stimulate the local and global economies of the world.
Past recessions and recoveries were mainly dependent on American consumption patterns, because of the sheer wealth of the country. Its 300 million or so citizens decided the economic fate of the world thanks to relatively large disposable incomes. However, with the emergence of BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India and China) countries and the EU things have changed and rather than 300 million people, 3 billion people now have an influence on consumption of goods and services. That is why the effects of the current recession are also heightened, but will also be the catalyst of a much faster recovery than past history suggests. With the amount of government intervention and support, it is only a matter of time before confidence in the markets returns. Once the US recovers, the world will follow and so will 3 billion consumers.
How long do you think the recession will last? Have your say on the poll and see what others think. Based on which group you talk to, there are many definitions of what is technically a recession is. For purposes of this poll lets assume that the recession will be over after we have had 2 consecutive quarters of positive economic (GDP) growth. (RSS/Email readers may need to visit the site to see the flash poll graphic. Click here to access)
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December 15, 2008 10:19 AM
I wish I could blow more sunshine in your face, but the clouds are getting thicker and thicker.
Your ideas of the economy rebounding are wishful thinking at best and more likely part of a mass dilution.
We are facing a worst recession than the Great Depression because of the weakness of our financial position and the iminant collapse of the dollar.
When the world turns from the dollar, the US economy will sink while the rest of the world will return to growth. We are no longer going to be the engine to drive the global economy as we have been for the last 50 years.
The game is over. The world is no longer going to borrow the US money so purchase the goods that they produce.
December 16, 2008 2:09 AM
Direct comparisons to the Great Depression overlook many underlying differences between then and now. During the Great Depression, the unemployment rate surged to 25% and GDP contracted by 28% between 1930 and 1932. It is unlikely given all the government intervention and developed economies that we can get to such ridiculous levels again. [If I wrong, god help us all]
December 16, 2008 2:35 AM
I advise you do a little research on the relative purchasing power of us consumers vs. the 3 billion from the BRIC countries... I will give you a hint, US consumption is roughly 40% of world GDP. Also the US is a service sector economy and people in the developing world don't purchase our services or IP related goods so even if they did consume on the order which you imply it wouldn't do much good for us.
December 16, 2008 5:17 PM
Curt - I realize I am bit optimistic (a change I think), but looking at some past recession headlines the news is always worst before the bottom. The US may be going downhill, but the rest of the world is still got a long wa y to go. Also, I wouldn't be so quick to write off the US economy and dollar, it has a knack of rebounding strongly. If things go get worse, the Euro will collapse and the US dollar will get even stronger. Long term, despite structural weaknesses, the US is where I would rather invest.
Madison, I agree. But historical comparisons can be dangerous. Still if we reach the GD figures, we will all be broke.
Drew - US (300M) consumption is 40% of GDP (and falling). The other 3 billion I mentioned make the bulk of the remaining global consumption so will have as a big an impact as the US going forward. I don't agree with your last point in term of developing people not purchashing US service. In fact, I think that once the global economy starts growing, US multinationals will boom which should have massive benefits for our domestic economy.
December 16, 2008 5:24 PM
I also had this article republished in Seeking Alpha , under a much more controversial title - This Recession's Not That Bad - And We're More Than Halfway Through. As you can imaging the comments were very strong. Here are some:
(Tbird) Andy, my only hope for you is to please put your $ where your sentiments are if you think we are halfway through this recession and you are bullish; then you can publish another article in 6 mos. or so and tell all of us naysayers how incorrect we were. And I hope you are correct...
I trade daily and try not to look forward more than a week @ most and agree with most of the other replies that there is much more downside going forward.
(leh) A lot of savvy prognosticators with much more data (and history of accurate calls) are saying the opposite, and see this as just the beginning of possibly a decade long hangover. Given that we've barely begun to see the fallout in the commercial real estate markets, alt A mortgage defaults, etc, never mind the already announced hundreds of thousands of lost jobs with more on the way, your forecast seems very Pollyanna-ish, to say the least.
(jepittman) This is a good topic. Keep in mind that by the time the recession is three months from ending the stock market should be advancing strongly. Investors will sense the recovery well before it actually occurs and bid stocks higher. The two years following a recession yield very large gains. Something to keep in mind regardless of where you think we are now
(slowsmile) ...On what facts are the author's "optimistc assumptions" or guesses based ? Where are his convincing reasons ?
This is what's coming:
1. Peak oil is very, very close. What will this do to oil and the dollar ?
2. Paulson and Bernanke's Bailout isn't working is it ?
3. The US Fiscal Debt....What an unfixable, bloody joke.
4. Read the latest National Intelligence Council's report: Global Trends 2025 - A Transformed World. This report effectively greatly downgrades America's geopolitical influence by 2025. And the dollar will no longer be Almighty.
5. Wealth will shift from West to East.
I guess the author was instructed to write "something positive" to help fix the current and fractured "market confidence".
[Vienna] have a very social approach to the current situation, and if I would say I sold my stock last year everybody would say - yeah we all knew (my analysis as amateur was that nothing goes up 300% in 3-4 years - austrian stock index which does not change its stock as it pleases by a private held company, I think it is a truthworthy realistic index of the situation with no bullshit in it)
I also tend to be on the side of the collapse theory.
BUT: It has always shown that in time of stress people are able to achive great things. For one thing I hope that the greed and the constant pushing of the large corporations will soften a little.
I do hope that this theory will help the system to create a more gentle curve downwards, and lead us to a more simple live, rather than a crash.
I often spoke with my grandmother - she lived in WWI, great depression and WWII, and it is astonishing on how she always talked about optimism.
Maybe you are just too spoiled to consider that you might just take public transport, or not eat at Mac that often, or buy all the rubbish you have.
If we take it like that, maybe we might be on the right track, and for this reason I hope that the current situation will last for some time. I was really fed up working with US corporations and dealing with their constant greed, pushing things to a limit that was bejond any sense, so that US citizens could grow even fatter.
greeting from Europe.
December 16, 2008 6:33 PM
the current recession will last into 2010 easily (or, uneasily), as the bailouts will only prolong the current mass bleeding in the financial and auto industries. the bailout band aid won't save them in the long term, putting thousands out of work.
add to this the global markets being more dependent on each other in modern times than in the past. we should be putting the taxpayer bailout money into the hands of the people who can jumpstart the economy---the taxpayers themselves. who now will buy cars or houses or flat screen tv's once the big boys are bailed out temporarily. no one i know will be. go to www.BSFlag.com and send an email BS Flag to your senator and congressperson today and send a strong message!
December 18, 2008 3:40 PM
I do hope you are right and this recession will not last much longer. But the pessimist in me is convinced that this recession will last at least until 2010. With all the news of people losing jobs, stores and other businesses closing this will prompt consumers to consume less and less. And the US being a consumer country this will only make matter worse. But then again the prices seem to rapidly falling now.
Nothing to do right now but to wait and see.
Great post btw
December 26, 2008 6:46 AM
CURRENT RECESSION IS PROBABLY IS A YEAR OLD WHICH HAS NOW VERY DEEPENED ALL OVER THE WORLD AND PREDICTION IS THAT IT MAY FURTHER DEEPEN IN AREAS WHERE NO ONE CAN IMAGIN. LET ME QUOTE THE PAPER MONEY THAT IS CREDIT CARDS. IN AMERICA I THINK MAJORITY MORE THAN 90% CONSUMERS BUY ARTICLES ON CREDIT AND ENJOY CREDIT LIMITS OVER AND ABOVE THEIR INCOME. NOW VERY ALARMING SITUATION FOR FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS UNDER THE ONE CREDIT PRODUCT. NOW COMING BACK TO THE PERIOD OF CURRENT RECESION, IT MIGHT LAST FOR TWO YEARS BECAUSE OF THE SEVERITY OF THE RECESSION. WHEN PRICES WILL COME DOWN DRASTICALLY, INVESTMENT WILL TAKE PLACE GRADUALLY AS INVESTORS WILL NOT TAKE RISK SO QUICKLY. SECONDLY ALL SPECULATORS ARE ON THE SIDE LINE AND WAITING FOR THE BOTTOM LONE OF THE RECESSION. FROM WHERE THEY WILL PICK MOMENTUM AND TAKE DECISIONS FOR INVESTMENT. SO 2009 WILL ALSO BE THE FULL YEAR OF RECESSION.
January 3, 2009 2:00 PM
One of the comments made stated that we should give the money back to the PEOPLE. I read a great idea in US Today from a concerned citizen with a Ph.D. in Economics. So simple a suggestion, yet almost failsafe! Instead of the government giving billions to banks and large companies all they need to do is offer every US Citizen a 30-year mortgage at 1.5% fixed rate interest! All financially qualified U.S. Citizens would be able to purchase new or refinance old primary residences with a $500,000 lifetime limit of government capital. Want to see why this plan will work and end the recession? There is a blog and a website............
RemortgageAmerica.blogspot.com
The contributor and spokesperson is Dennis F. Paulaha, Ph.D. Econonics and his email is :
d.paulaha@gmail.com
Read the entire proposal and see if you see the solution that I do! This was in USA TODAY on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 on Page 11A! We can fix this if the POWERS THAT BE WILL ALLOW IT!!!!
Jane.....in California
January 21, 2009 9:43 PM
Until This day, third weeks of January 2009, nothing happen with the recession, its the worst recession for a past decade. But I do not know after Obama become the 44th president of USA, and now he is in the white house. We will see what he's first action to help USA from this recession.
Goonie
0% Apr Credit Card
February 10, 2009 5:44 PM
IMHO, as the author also writes, the biggest reason behind this recession is past reliance by other countries on American appetite for consumption. Everyone's overly concerned about American economy, American jobs, American stock markets. It's obvious now the world doesn't run around the US anymore.
For the long-term future, the US will continue to remain a major economic entity such as Germany is today. But, it will no longer be the sole superpower it was for so many years. China and India are expected to become increasingly powerful in coming few decades -by their sheer numbers and will call the shots on global affairs.
February 20, 2009 1:19 AM
Just look at what is happening to our auto industry, especially the big names in the market like GMC, Ford, etc. I hope our new president can do something to save the situation.
March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
Although we have seen a few recent upticks in the stock market, I believe the recession and recovery from the recession will last several more years. My reasoning:
1. Fallout from the real estate mrket is not done.
2. consumer credit markets have not loosened significantly
3. Business credit markets have not loosened significantly.
4. Comparitively speaking the number of exportable goods that we produce today pales in comparison to the exportable goods produce in the 70's and 80's.
5. Becasue so many people have been burned by the the real estate bubble and tightening credit markets there is a change in consumer mindset occuring. I believe that people finally see how close to cliffs edge, financially, that they have been living.
6. Many Americans are upside down in their mortgages. Until there is a reversal in these values Americans will continue to be reminded that much of their retirement has been eroded. I think this will put a huge damper on consumption as more and more baby boomers are reaching retirement.
You mention China and India as economies that are capable of pulling the world out of the recession. I believe they can exert some pressure. But, all though these two countries have huge populations they do not have a large enough consumer base to have much of an effect on the worlds economy.
Moreover these two countries economies are heavily dependent on exports to the US.
Both countries are protectionist in anture and make it difficult for US goods to be imported.
Although both countries have large populations they have very small middle classes. It is the middle class that makes the economic wheels turn.
I think we are looking at fourth quarter of 2011 before we feel any significant economic change. It won't be until the first quarter of 2012 that we will be able to truly say we are out of the recession.
Just my opinion
April 30, 2009 10:43 PM
as i can see now, its not getting any better, maybe in a year